When The Mirror Doesn’t Reflect Reality

Body Dysmorphic Disorder is a mental illness. When someone is suffering from BDD, they see themselves in a distorted manner. They imagine that part of their body (or all of it) is flawed and needs to be changed even if that’s not true. Someone who was once overweight and then lost it may still see themselves in their former state. When they look in the mirror, all they see is a fat, unattractive person who needs to change. This often results in eating disorders as well as self harm in other ways. There is also a high suicide rate amongst people in this group. Their obsession and self-loathing often becomes too much to bear.

When the image we see in the mirror doesn’t reflect the person staring into it, it is because of our brains making their own reality based on many factors. Opinions of others shape our views of ourselves as do the images we see on tv or in movies. We look at others that we admire and try to be like them. When we fail, the negativity comes pouring in and we start to hate who we are. When we don’t measure up to who we want to be, we see a distorted image in the mirror that doesn’t reflect reality. We see the things about ourselves that we hate the most and we amplify them to unhealthy levels until we become obsessed.

Religion distorts the image we have of ourselves as well. When I was a Christian, I was told of how God hates sin and how all people need to change their ways in order to come back to having a relationship with him. I would look in the mirror and I would see a failure. I would see a wretched sinner. I would look at my reflection and see Hell’s flames flickering behind me. I was brought down low and stayed there for a long time. Religion thrives on making you feel bad about yourself. If you can convince people to believe they have a problem, you can then step in and offer a solution…even if no problem exists.

How can a believer, such as I was, get out of that state of depression? How can you pull yourself up out of the depths of depravity and be once more welcomed into the arms of Jesus? Repentance is what we are told will cure us of our sinful disease. Repent and come to Jesus and all will be forgiven. You be become a new creation. It sounded too good to be true, but I dedicated myself to becoming the best new me I could be. I turned from my old ways and moved forward.

When I pushed aside the secular things of my life and focused only on the holy things as described in the Bible, I actually felt better. I felt like I was doing good and becoming more righteous by the minute. I pushed aside family members and friends who didn’t believe. I stopped watching tv shows and movies that were not in line with my new sense of morality and the music I listened to was 100% Christian music 100% of the time. I was a new me and my image in the mirror began to reflect that. I was reaping the rewards of the hard work and dedication to the Lord…or so I thought. Little did I know that what I now saw in the mirror was for my eyes only. What everyone else saw when they looked at me was a different image altogether.

Christianity has a way of making you feel absolutely wonderful when you are following the instructions in the guidebook. You feel like by pushing family aside, and by turning and walking away from anyone who thinks differently than you, that you are now a good person with nothing but good times awaiting in your future. Attending church is sometimes a great way to feel better about yourself. People who believe the same thing in one place, high-fiving and back slapping? What could be better? But…when you slip up because you are human, Christianity tears you right back down again. You are labeled as weak, a back-slider or an unrepentant sinner who was never a true believer to begin with. Your failures are thrown in your face (out of love of course) so that you don’t mess up again. In other words, your life is a mess on the floor and God wants those who believe in him to rub your nose in it on his behalf.

To keep up the image of a good Christian, one must look the part at all times even when your heart isn’t in it. When you want to speak out against an unbeliever, you are expected to bite your tongue, or risk being dragged back down to their level. So you put on a fake smile and pretend that you don’t still have bad thoughts, angry moments or the desires to do and say things that all people have the desire for also. Your image in the mirror that you see is a reflection of your devotion and comes with its own halo to shine back at you when you look at yourself. To others, what they see is someone who pushed aside loved ones, belittled people who have differing views, told decent people they would go to Hell because of what they believed or who they loved if it conflicts with their own deeply-held religious beliefs.

When your image in the mirror looks to you like the “bigger man or woman” who stays above the fray or looks like the compassionate child of God who reaches out to save the lost, your actions should reflect that as well. When those around you see a person who has a “holier than thou” attitude or who is hateful, bigoted or hot tempered when challenged, your mirror isn’t reflecting reality. You mirror image should look like how others view you. If it’s night and day different, that is a sign of a problem.

When I stopped believing in God, it was hard for me. I was afraid at first that my decision to let it all go would have eternal consequences that I didn’t want. I was afraid that how I was viewed by others would be hard for me to handle. I was worried that I would have to walk with my head hanging in shame after all those years telling people about how I was a Christian with strong faith and they should be too. But I could no longer look in the mirror and see a good, happy follower of Christ who looked nothing like Jesus to the rest of the world. I could not be a hypocrite for one moment longer. I couldn’t tell people they need Jesus and that I believed in it all when inside I was filled with doubt. I needed to be honest with myself. When you are honest with yourself, you can be honest with those around you. Their view of who you are and your own should match up if you are honest.

The purpose of this post is to try to get people to open their eyes a bit to reality. There is but one reality that should be shared by all people. If your reality and someone else’s is completely different, at least one of you is wrong. If you are convinced yours is right, share the reasons why with the rest of us so we may join in. If you can’t share reasons why your reality is to be believed and say you just need to have faith, that’s not reality at all. Words in a book are not evidence of your reality. Your personal experiences that you can’t demonstrate to others is not evidence. The fact that you believe and I don’t is not evidence.

If your belief in your reality is justified, then words can not take that away from you. If you are convinced that you are right, words will not anger you. You should be able to laugh them off as being absurd or at the very least offer valid reasons why the words are absurd. Having a discussion about beliefs, religion, lifestyles or any other topic should be a simple endeavor. It should be laid back and it should just involve the facts, not emotion. If you choose to avoid such discussions and cut off the people from your life trying to have them, how exactly is that helpful? A sheltered life is not a healthy life. Only interacting with people who think just like you will skew your reality. It will give you a false sense of righteousness and make people who disagree look like enemies to you.

If you disagree with someone, don’t push them aside. Sit down with them and have a mature and productive conversation. We are all equals here on this earth. There shouldn’t be a side that sits up on high looking down on the other side. Segregation is not the answer to life’s problems. I recall learning in church about being “the hands of feet of Jesus” to reach a lost world in order to bring people to salvation. I don’t recall anyone telling me to use Jesus’s hands to push someone down and then use his feet to walk away from them.

 

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41 thoughts on “When The Mirror Doesn’t Reflect Reality

  1. Christian values are an example of societal values espoused by many a group. They provide a framework to allow us to “show” our neighbors how good we are. As such they are harmless … sort of. When these values are nebulous (they always are), they allow corrupt leaders to reinterpret them for their own means (prosperity gospels, maybe). When they are found to be groundless, as you found, then one feels betrayed, not only by the rules but by all who supported those rules and encouraged you to comply with them. Then, there are the back lashes. I have read some truly horrifying accounts of people who were shunned by their former friends and family, who actively tried to get their backsliding Christian fired from his job, removed from the custody of his children, etc. (Not just Scientologists but mainstream evangelicals, too.)

    Thank you for sharing your story. Mine was no where near as dire, but then I didn’t buy in as heavily as did you.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. My wife and I were friends with a couple we had met in church. We spent a lot of time together and even did Bible study at each other’s homes. We didn’t know they were having marital trouble until they told us they were getting divorced. It turns out the husband wasn’t supportive of the wife and her issues stemming from being sexually abused by her adoptive father. He dismissed her issues as not being real and made her feel isolated in their ten year marriage. It was all about him and she couldn’t take it anymore. After a while she eventually found a new person who cared about her and started confiding in him. She had an affair with him that began the divorce. I think it was an intentional act to get her husband to consent to the divorce.

      After she remarried a couple of years later, her ex husband found out we were spending time with her and her new husband which was the man she was seeing while still married to her ex. When he found out we were still friends with the ex wife and her new “homewrecking” man, he was mad. He was disgusted with us and said “I thought they were Christians. I guess nothing is sacred anymore.” Apparently being Christian doesn’t include keeping friends who have had an affair or forgiving them.

      This man also tried getting her and her husband fired by calling his ex’s boss and spreading lies. He also told their children that their mother was a sinner and he didn’t want them to end up like her. He sent horrible, expletive-laden emails and texts calling her a whore and more. He told her constantly that she would burn in Hell forever for her actions. This was what being a Christian looked like to him.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. This here -> “This man also tried getting her and her husband fired by calling his ex’s boss and spreading lies. He also told their children that their mother was a sinner and he didn’t want them to end up like her. He sent horrible, expletive-laden emails and texts calling her a whore and more. He told her constantly that she would burn in Hell forever for her actions. This was what being a Christian looked like to him.”

        People like this don’t realize they are in their own hell. 😦

        Liked by 3 people

      2. So many times, people like this feel justified in their actions. They hide behind the Bible and spew their hatred. “The Bible says adultery is wrong so I therefore have the right to ignore all the passages about love and forgiveness. Many times (including a recent encounter with a Christian here on my blog) people feel that they can attack someone and then play the victim. “You said or did something I didn’t like. Now I can say whatever I want to you in a deliberately hurtful manner because my feelings got hurt.”

        Hate is hate. Whatever your reason is for feeling anger towards someone, you still need to be accountable for your own actions. If you feel wronged by someone, talk it out peaceably. If you think that getting revenge is the best option, you are wrong. Fighting fire with fire just makes the world around you burn down faster.

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      3. What I always wonder is what happened to the actual teachings of Christ with these so-called Christians? It’s been a long time since I read the New Testament, but I seem to recall that Jesus told people to forgive, to turn the other cheek, to not accumulate wealth and instead to give what they owned to the poor, that people who gathered together and worshiped ostentatiously were hypocrites and when you prayed you should do it home, alone, where no one could see, that you were to welcome the stranger, the immigrant, and make them feel welcome? If you look back at the history of the various Christian sects, it quickly becomes obvious that the religion was never about following the actual teachings of Christ, it was about using religion, manipulating it, as a way to obtain power, wealth, social status, etc.

        Liked by 5 people

      4. And if you question a Christian about being judgmental or hurtful, they tend to either say “hey, I’m not perfect” or “I don’t need an unbeliever telling me about my relationship with God.” When I was a Christian there was much talk in the church about the “age of grace” we live in where we can sin and be forgiven instead of having to pay for our transgressions. Praise Jesus! Basically it was an excuse for bad behavior and a way for Christians to tell each other, “Don’t beat yourself up. Jesus forgives you. Move on and try to do better next time.” Then it happens again and again and again but each time forgiveness rains down from above.

        The history of the Christian religion shows the men in charge doing and saying anything to get control. Using the threat of God’s wrath worked wonders and people cowered beneath them. The religion was always about power and status. It was never about truth.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Re: Your recent encounter with a Christian –

        Damon wrote: “I just cannot see how you can look at nature, your children, infinite space and the intricate things which make us able to be alive and well, and not see God?”

        I don’t know Damon at all.

        I do know myself and remember a moment like this about 15 years ago. I was riding on the back of our motorcycle where I did so much of my pondering back in the day. Still holding to a belief but barely. May is my anniversary of completely letting go.

        Sometimes I wonder if it isn’t “hate” so much coming at us and others as much as it is a defensive posture. Preaching to the choir here, I know. 🙂 In many ways I get it. People often need “faith” to survive and that takes us into the rabbit holes of so many avenues and whys?

        Liked by 3 people

      6. Defensive responses that contain hurtful words and anger are usually due to someone’s own doubts and fears. It’s kind of like how bullies operate. There is something they don’t like about themselves so they take it out on others.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. You wrote: “Many times (including a recent encounter with a Christian here on my blog) people feel that they can attack someone and then play the victim. “You said or did something I didn’t like. Now I can say whatever I want to you in a deliberately hurtful manner because my feeling got hurt.”

        I’ve often pondered why it is that it is so easy to attack others and play the victim. All in Jesus name too.

        I think it comes right out of the Bible. God creates us. His plan. Plan blows up. He knew it would. Floods out the world playing the victim.

        Liked by 3 people

      8. Jesus that is terrible! Some people are just nasty pieces of work who use religion to try and justify their own behavior, and that’s putting it VERY LIGHTLY. Church never holds people like him to account either.

        Liked by 2 people

      9. Believing you are forgiven (no matter what) often emboldens people and they feel they can do or say whatever to people because Jesus has their back.

        As far as the ex husband (ex friend of mine too I suppose) is concerned, the church takes his side. The ex wife is a sinning adulterer and he is the innocent victim who is right to call her out for her sins against the Lord and for breaking up their holy union. I’m not sure the church knows about all of the behind-the-scenes stuff he’s said and done, but in general, they view him as the “oh you poor soul” victim and they support him.

        Oh, and I forgot to mention that the kids they had together are quite honest. That’s how our female friend found out that her “victim” ex has different women sleep over his house. He tells the kids that they are just friends…who happen to sleep in the same bed. He’s justified though, because his wife was the bad guy, right? Funny how this person can sleep around, unmarried of course, and still consider himself a righteous Christian. It is sad how he has convinced our friend that she is a horrible, sinful person who deserves Hell. She still goes to therapy for her sexual abuse past, but also has to deal with the guilt and shame her ex keeps heaping on her…while doing whatever he wants to.

        Liked by 2 people

      10. Now that is some scandalous story. What a hypocrite. But as we both know, hypocrisy is par for the course in Christianity.
        On an unrelated note, you mention you have a brother which you stopped getting in touch with when you were involved with church, did you ever reach out to him again?

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Superb connections in this one Ben. You hit this one out of the park in my book with that “looking in the mirror” bit. Thanks for reminding me what an asshole I was. Hahaha. Nice post buddy

    Liked by 2 people

      1. It’s a good lesson. John Z asked a question the other day. If I met myself, would I like myself? I think your post is a call to true self examination no matter who you are—asshole

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Lol.

        Look, I’ll be honest. I almost never write lol because I almost never laugh out loud when I read something someone wrote. But you Jim…you had me at asshole. Well played.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. If you disagree with someone, don’t push them aside. Sit down with them and have a mature and productive conversation.

    Out of curiosity did anyone sit down with you?
    If memory serves you went through deconversion after a process of examining evidence.
    There was a desire to reveal the facts behind the claims.
    In my experience this journey is usually a solo trip.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. No. The only person who offered to talk during my period of deconversion was a deacon in the church. He didn’t so much offer, as he was told to talk to me. I (via personal email) had asked the pastor serious questions and he assigned the deacon to “straighten me out.” There was no serious conversation, only Bible quotes and explanations of church tradition. The pastor didn’t care to discuss concerns with me directly, only delegate the responsibility to those eager to make a name for themselves in the church. When I left the church, no one tried to stop me. No one tried to “talk some sense” into me. No one one has since tried to contact me. I feel like I was a cancer that they were more than happy to be rid of.

      My deconversion process was a journey I took alone. Well, my wife and I worked through it together, but no one outside my family wanted anything to do with it. The friends we have who are still Christians don’t discuss much about religion with us anymore. They listened to some of our questions and concerns but basically dismissed them and went back to “but the Bible says…” It’s tough trying to have a conversation about issues with a book when the people who you are talking with trust it completely and blindly. When people dig their heels in over the Bible, they are hard to move and all too often, their ears, eyes and minds are closed.

      Liked by 4 people

  4. They listened to some of our questions and concerns but basically dismissed them and went back to “but the Bible says…” It’s tough trying to have a conversation about issues with a book when the people who you are talking with trust it completely and blindly. When people dig their heels in over the Bible, they are hard to move and all too often, their ears, eyes and minds are closed

    Yes, you are right. But, followers of Christ who are not fundamentalists go through the same thing. Lately, I’ve been deeply searching my heart in this issue to think about my own motives. Am I sharing out of genuine caring and love for someone or to maybe simply win an argument or to justify my own position. You know, is the conversation actually doing good in the long term. It is always much easier for us to want to drag people to where we are at or to where we think they should be rather than to accept them in where they are at. And, of course, for me as a Christian to simply trust God in the whole thing. Becky.

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    1. I think the question becomes … why must you share? Why can’t Christians just do as the bible tells them and be known by their “works”?

      This, probably more than anything, is what atheists rail against … the constant push-push-push to accept Jesus … become a believer … live a “holy” life. I realize this is a “commandment” in the “good book,” but unless the person has shown an interest, it becomes nothing more than harassment.

      Liked by 3 people

    2. I think that anyone (Christian or otherwise) should look at what they believe in and why. If you believe in God, as I did for nearly all my life, then you should be able to confidently point to valid reasons why. A book is not a valid reason for faith in God unless that book can be verified as both accurate and also to be from God. Neither can be done when looking at the Bible. It is full of inaccuracies and also has no trace of divine origin. Nothing points to God other than words written by man. So when you use a book to confirm your faith, it had better be accurate. Otherwise you are using a faulty book to confirm what you believe. I could do that no longer.

      When sharing faith, one should be conscious of what other people are expecting. So if you want to share the Gospel, people who don’t yet believe in it want some evidence of why you do. If you point to a book, you’ll get met with resistance. If you point to nature, you’ll likely be met with scientific reasons why things are the way they are. Digging in your heels and sticking with what you believe is fine…if you can back it up. I tried for a long time. But I couldn’t back it up. I couldn’t convince myself it was true, let alone anyone else.

      I don’t like to be told I am wrong. I don’t mind, however, being SHOWN I am wrong. I don’t push my agenda on anyone. I just share what I believe or don’t believe and why. I think that until Bible believing Christians can prove the Bible to be accurate or divine in nature, they should extend the same courtesy.

      Thanks for the comment.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Well, I can only share my personal opinion. We’re all different. I think if someone is going to ground their whole faith in the inerrancy of the Bible, they are probably in for a fall. Could be wrong, but it does seem to me that this is not tenable and IMO can actually lead to an idolatry of the Bible.

        For me, my convictions are based more in what I think is the witness of creation, i.e. things like the fine-tuning argument, and following that also the apostolic witness of the resurrection.

        But, let’s face it, no argument can be absolutely fool proof. one way or the other. For me, there is also an element of reasoned faith involved and the internal witness of God’s spirit which I can not prove to someone else. Spirituality is part of my DNA so to speak.

        Our understanding together will always be finite and limited. Appreciate talking with you again as well.

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      2. @ Becky
        The most crucial thing that is missing from all you reasons for being a Christian is …. evidence.
        In fact, you are betting your soul solely (souly?) on faith.

        What would your reaction be I wounder if while as a passenger on an airline on the final approach to the runway the pilot came over the cabin radio and announced that, as a devout Christian with unshakable faith, he wasn’t feeling so good so he was going to let God land the plane and immediately took his hands off the ”stick”.

        Take a guess …

        Ark.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. The “internal witness of God’s spirit” is something I think all believers feel at one point or another. I was convinced God was speaking to me too. I believed he was guiding me. But that was because I was already convinced he was real. I already bought into the story. So anything that happened in my life was viewed through that lens. If something good happened in my life, I was convinced it was God speaking to me, and rewarding me for being faithful. When I opened the Bible and found a passage that seemed to be the perfect message at the perfect time, I was convinced it was again God speaking to me.

        When my doubts crept in and I could no longer ignore them, I questioned it all. I prayed relentlessly for God to remove my doubt, strengthen my faith and once again make me a fully convinced believer. And when I asked for help, prayed for guidance and poured my heart out, God was silent. The voice I thought I used to hear guiding me was noticeably absent. When I believed, I told myself God spoke to me all the time. When I needed him the most, there was nothing. Looking back, it was always me convincing myself God was speaking to me. It was always me finding meaning in Bible verses, that kinda sorta fit my situation and then attributing that experience to God.

        I don’t believe that wanting the Bible to be provable turns it into an idol. I don’t believe that asking for some evidence is wrong or sinful. I don’t think that shows weakness. In fact, God should welcome that when you are searching for the truth. He should provide the evidence you seek in order to bring more people to him. If he wants to reach everyone and he knows the hangup is evidence, he should show us something. I know that if someone could show me he is real and that the story is all true, I would accept it.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. I don’t like to be told I am wrong.

        Really? Well tough titty for you, fish face. Time to man you wimp and admit it. You’re wrong wrong and …. wrong !
        And you are going to Hell for ever ‘n ever …. so there. Because, as you know, Jesus is such a sweetie and lurvs you ever so much!
        And all your God-hating, blaspheming atheist friends will be there to greet you!
        Not moi … I have been exempted on account of my phobia for fire and brimstone.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. This may interest you, Ben.
        David Robertson(Weeflea) has just released a new book ( and post) called A.S.K about letters he’s received from ”young people” and the answers he provides.

        In the post he claims to want children to ”think biblically” when searching for answers.
        He writes: ”My motto is to follow the facts wherever they lead.

        Considering it is the bible that is more often than not cited as the initial reason that leads to the road of deconversion this seems an odd thing to recommend to young people ( teens)

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Critical thinking is how people (teens or anyone else) should approach life’s questions. When you “think biblically”, your answers will always be skewed. It’s sort of like “leading the witness” in a trial. If you say that someone can have whatever opinion they wish or have access to all the truth in the world, but then only provide one source to use to form their opinions or gather up their facts, that’s a problem. Especially when the one source is inaccurate and the paper trail of its origin leads back to men who wrote it for their control of the masses. There is no evidence of God contained in that one source nor is there any evidence outside of that source.

        I will have to check out his post.

        Liked by 3 people

  5. Does strong faith necessarily mean the absence of doubt or does doubt actually mean that a person is taking their faith very seriously and also has an inquiring mind?

    And, what level of evidence is sufficient? It seems that a type of evidence that is wholly persuasive for one person, may not be for another.

    Also, could the Bible be a “mixed bag,” some part of it containing objective truth which is verifiable, but also containing the record of fallible humankind’s search to understand and to know God, kind of like a cracked jar with the light of God’s Word shining through?

    Also, is it possible that parts of the Bible may be metaphorically/allegorically true and important for our learning, but not literally true?

    Ahh, probably throwing out too many questions. Anyway, won’t say any more but will just listen to your insights, Ben. Really want to hear your thinking.

    Probably could have a very long conversation. 🙂

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    1. If you have strong faith, there shouldn’t be doubts. Faith is belief. If there is doubt as to what one believes, that’s not strong faith. If you think of faith differently than me you may disagree with that, but doubting the Bible (which is where we find all of the stories of Jesus whom the religion was founded on) suggests that maybe there are some fundamental issues. If you doubt the source, where does your faith come from? Intuition? Personal revelation? How can those be shared with others to bring them to God?

      “What level of evidence is sufficient?”

      This is a question that Christians always ask of skeptics and unbelievers. Usually this question is substituted for actual evidence when asked specifically for evidence. It’s an avoidance tactic. If there’s any evidence, please share. There shouldn’t always be the “well, you wouldn’t accept what evidence I offer anyway” response. That’s what usually gets presented in this type of debate. There is an easy, universal piece of evidence that all will accept. Here it is: Any actual, observable, verifiable evidence of God. That’s it. Not words in a book. Not personal experience. Not wishful thinking. If you believe in God so strongly that you are convinced, sharing what convinces you with others should be easy. But personal experiences don’t cut it. People claim to be personally abducted by aliens, but that is not proof that aliens exist…only that someone is convinced they exist.

      So let’s start with God. If God wants us all to know him, why don’t we? There’s no “hidden” or “secret” sin in our lives preventing it as many suggest when confronted with a total lack of evidence. If we seek him, he should reveal himself in a way that is observable by all people. If not, why not? Why all the secrecy? Does God not want ALL of us to know him? I searched for a lifetime and devoted my life to my faith for decades. Still no God.

      If God exists and wants us to know him, we would. A God who hides from those who earnestly seek him is not a god worthy of following. If God was knowable and observable, the question of “what evidence is sufficient?” would never come up. If we can establish that God in fact does exist, then we can sort out what stories about him are accurate or not and determine which came from him and which didn’t. Without first establishing that, there’s no point in trying to make sense of a jumbled up, contradictory book.

      If we can’t first establish the existence of God, without using other people’s words written down thousands of years ago, why argue over such stories? The existence of God should not be a debate. If he exists, then it should be universally accepted. If not, why not? Are some of us created just to never know him or deny him and be punished forever? What about me? I was a Christian for nearly 40 years without ever wondering why. I just accepted it was all true and believed deeply that it was. When I lost faith, I prayed and prayed to draw closer to God to regain that faith. Was that part of a divine plan? Shouldn’t he have, at bare minimum, shown me he was there? Shouldn’t he have answered at least one prayer? If he was there the whole time, he looked the other way and let me go. Ignoring someone who is trying to find you doesn’t help you have faith in a religion supposedly based on trust.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Thank you, Ben. We come from very different church backgrounds as kids, I think. I was nine or ten years old when I wondered “why?”

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    2. @ Becky

      And, what level of evidence is sufficient?

      As a Christian you accept that you are ”in a relationship” with an omnipotent, omniscient all loving deity who loves you unconditionally – apparently – who manifested in human form, performed thousands of miracles ( if John and his Good Deeds claim is to be believed) died for the sins of humanity to set us right with God (Yahweh) and came back to life three days later.

      Surely any being capable of such mind-bending feats does not need puny humans to specify what evidence would be sufficient?
      For heavens’ sake, he … He would absolutely know what evidence would be sufficient, and as the Creator of All Things, would have known all along.
      So why on earth are you even suggesting that us humans must tell this god what we consider would be evidence to believe in Him?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Well, no, Ark. I don’t think we need to tell God.

        But, it helps me when I’m dialoguing with someone to more fully understand their thinking and to better engage, to be more sensitive.

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      2. In truth there is no need to even ask about what evidence would be sufficient as it is clear there is no evidence, otherwise there would be no ambiguity surrounding this issue.
        And trust me on this, atheist would respect you so much more if you did not allude to ”what evidence would convince you”.

        As Ben pointed out, what you personally believe is simply meaningless in this context.
        It is all based on faith, which, sadly is primarily the result of indoctrination/inculcation, culture and geography – the reason why you are Christian and Mr Mohammed next door is Muslim and the Cohens across the road are Jewish, and why those irritating PITAs at the gate are Jehovah’s Witnesses, and why several thousand kilometers away Mr Patel and his family are currently worshipping Hanuman.

        And while you give no credence to the numerous other gods, you simply refuse to acknowledge that you are in exactly the same boat with your god.

        It really is as simple as that.
        They are all man-made and there is no evidence whatsoever to presume otherwise.

        Come over to the Dark Side. Reality is so much more fun.

        Liked by 1 person

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